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 on: Today at 04:21:28 AM 
Started by Dewi Morgan - Last post by Al_B
Really enjoyed reading that - makes me want to pick up playimg it again with the latest patch!

 on: Today at 01:20:34 AM 
Started by Dewi Morgan - Last post by Dewi Morgan
Some items from my playing today, which I'm posting here as a separate bug so they don't get buried and lost, since this feels like a high-priority bug.

  • Bug: (Performance) There was somewhere that FPS dropped to SPF, when facing in certain directions, I suspect because culling wasn't happening as intensely as wanted. I need to take better notes on this.
  • ---: (Performance) Facing certain directions in the Arcanaeum, FPS drops to 2.
  • Bug: (Performance-Item Leak) Facing certain directions in the Athena's Might, FPS again drops to 2, sometimes 1. Let's go into debugging mode!
  • This is regardless of video quality and resolution, so probably not a video bottleneck?
  • Task Manager's Performance tab does not show anything spiking up when looking in that direction compared to others.
  • My system's reasonably beefy (NVidia Geforce GTX 1080 at 7-10%; Disks 0 and 1 at 0%; Ethernet not being used much; CPU i7-8700K@3.7GHz 30%; memory 47%, 14.8/32G -- and most of that usage is most likely other apps).
  • It seems to get slower with time, now about a 5 seconds per frame if I look in that direction, risen from about 0.5.
    so it's most likely something spawning a HUGE number of particles and not cleaning them up.
  • There's something making a sound there like it's shooting some spell: I'm guessing the spells aren't clearing once cast.
  • I'll try backing towards it to see what's making the noise. Looks like it's some dead lizardman corpses casting spells at each other.
  • I wandered off to get coffee, came back and tried it, and it is over 30 seconds per frame now, CPU spikes up to 100% for a few seconds, then drops down to 10% again for a while. Memory usage has gone up to 18.8G but dipped by about half a gig during the CPU spike.
  • It's not even drawing the FPS count anymore. If I press keys it says (Not Responding) in the window title until the frame redraws after a minute or so.
  • Reloading and switching back from (Windowed, Very Low quality, 1024x768, 60Hz, 90FoV) to my usual settings (Windowed, Ultra quality, 2160x1200, 60Hz, 120FoV), I'm still getting 40FPS or so after the reload, where I was getting fractional fps.
  • After just running right in and try to kill the magic users asap, I died about 6 times, but killed quite a few magic users, ninjas and fighters. I also picked up about 85 arrows, so that could be the leak? 85 arrows in the few minutes it took me to kill them all... that would be a LOOOOT of arrows fairly soon. I'm still getting an easy 40+fps, so there's been no noticeable slowdown in the area once I killed everything.
  • On returning to Athena's Might after about five-ten minutes, the corpses have again started casting magic at each other.
  • I should have thrown them into the lava to destroy them completely. Destroying the corpses now doesn't prevent the casting, since the casting seems to be coming from two glowing orbs where the magic users fell.
  • OK this gives me a chance to prove the hypothesis of the leak. I'll stand off at the other side of the abyss, and watch the corpses casting, and see if my FPS falls. It's already down to a steady 17-18fps... 15-16fps... 13-14fps... 11-12fps. Yeah, this seems a fairly linear slowdown, within a couple of minutes.
  • I think the hypothesis is proven: spells aren't being cleaned up.
  • They seem to be casting two spells: the black fireball that explodes in a cloud of black electric; and the red star/rose made of a square and a diamond. They seem to be casting about one spell a second.
  • On returning to the Forge of the Gods, there is an identical problem: I see spells being cast from glowing blobs marking dead NPCs, and hear arrows being fired. It claims 1 fps when looking at the forge.
  • I found a pile of over 200 individual arrows. All in a heap, rattling and physics-ing against themselves. I tried to pick them all up, but removing the ones I could see didn't help with the slowdown, looking at the pile of arrows did NOT significantly slow me down.
  • The slowest point seems to be when looking at what looked like four glowing orbs (so, four dead casters) casting the spells. So this is further evidence that it's the spells not cleaning up.
  • That said, maybe in the new save-file code, only save up to N arrows per level, not many hundreds, just in case?

TL;DR: Some pretty conclusive evidence that spells are causing some kind of resource leakage, killing frame rate.

 on: December 15, 2018, 10:50:10 PM 
Started by Nikole42I3 - Last post by Nikole42I3
You covered this really good. Thanks for the in-depth response.

 on: December 15, 2018, 02:23:01 PM 
Started by Dewi Morgan - Last post by Dewi Morgan
Thank you for saying that :)

I'm a little saddened about how few "+++" items I've managed to list. Like most people, I'm just bad at spotting things which seem "right"; we're naturally wired to spot things which seem "out of place" more than stuff which fits perfectly.

But it's a shame. When creating stuff, knowing what we've done well gives us something solid to build on, and makes sure we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater when fixing stuff.

Like, the jumping skills (double jump/wall jump) are the most fun and freedom I've had in the game with my completionist-explorer playstyle, so I was careful to highlight that fun despite pointing out the bug compared to their probable intent. In fixing it (if it is even felt to need fixing!), I'd hope that the great fun and freedom that those skills gave could somehow be retained. But I suspect that the bug was already known and deliberately kept, and the wise choice was made to just make the skill cost more points and be at the top of the skill tree, rather than nerfing it.

There are still falls that can kill you, and overhangs can still stop you jumping up things, but this great freedom of movement towards the endgame really makes the maps a fun romp :D

I try to call out other good stuff where I can, but I apologize for not being as conscientious about that as I should be.

Suffice to say that over a hundred hours of play means I've absolutely got my money's worth so far! :)

 on: December 15, 2018, 02:19:39 PM 
Started by OSE Walter - Last post by Nyast
I don't mean the game couldn't be saved/improved for individual players like you. I meant, as a commercial and financial success. No Man's Sky turned it around but they had a commercial success at launch ( mostly due to Sony's marketing ), unlike UA.

 on: December 15, 2018, 10:46:03 AM 
Started by nanashikun - Last post by phuhque
As for the Steam rewards not showing up unless you start a new save, we're still working with Steam why this is. Internally, the game SHOULD check for any DLC content upon loading a save, regardless of whether you had the content unlocked recently or not. It's a little strange, so we're still trying to figure out why this is.

Has anyone figured out the why on this?  As I well understand everyone is busy addressing game breaking defects, having to do a restart each time the DLC content is made available is equally as annoying as seeing between the world and not keeping one's progress.

 on: December 15, 2018, 10:34:31 AM 
Started by OSE Walter - Last post by Sandro
It's just too late to save the game on PC IMO.

Not for someone who hasnt played it yet.

History is a brutal storyteller. Even if the launch was a mess, the future will remember how they dealt with it and most importantly the final product. I havent played the game yet, and I am not saying anything speculative about that other than they still have time to make a "better" final historic statement.

 on: December 15, 2018, 09:55:00 AM 
Started by OSE Walter - Last post by Deeber
Ok looks like a whole slew of issues will be addressed with update 1 that I have noticed.  Looking forward to a fresh play-through after the update.  Will make some notes on any issues I find and post them in the appropriate thread.  Thank you dev team for sticking with it!  (And I'm glad you have a budget to keep doing it too.)  :)

 on: December 15, 2018, 07:09:01 AM 
Started by OSE Walter - Last post by Nyast
Better late than never, but I'm still pissed that you refused to hear your backers in alpha/beta that told you a proper saving system was needed, and your answer was dodging and saying it was impossible. Now guess what, with an additional month of work, it wasn't so impossible... right.

But yeah, it is going in the right direction. It's just too late to save the game on PC IMO. Maybe consoles will fare better.

 on: December 15, 2018, 02:56:54 AM 
Started by OSE Walter - Last post by Flatfingers
As I said on Discord, I'm very pleased to see this communication with players, and I think you've got the priorities fairly straight.

One thing in particular got my attention, though:

February 2019


Meta Game
We are evaluating ways to improve the overall player experience during a full play-through to better communicate requirements to complete the game and also reduce the complexity around what players are supposed to be doing to stop Typhon.

This is certainly a good idea. For example, from the player character's perspective, why is a "Doom Counter" a thing that exists?

My only gripe is that I don't think this one aspect -- adding content that clarifies for players "how do I win?" -- is enough to really say you've addressed the meta-game. A common objection among the Underworld fans is that UA feels more like a game than a world (and I think some newer players feel this as well, even if they can't quite articulate it). Just adding content to make a mechanical goal more obvious doesn't make UA feel more like a world... but changes and additions that relate UA's mechanics and dynamics and aesthetics to each other, where everything makes sense individually and in connection to many other content elements, give players a better explanation of Typhon and much more besides. For the price of increasing immersiveness in general, explaining Typhon's ticking clock is just one benefit among many.

So I'd suggest dedicating some real time to this "meta" goal. In fact, this sounds a lot like the whole-game, holistic, make-everything-consistent-and-connected pass through the content I starting bugging y'all about back in April of 2015:

What will please me most is if somebody (or somebodies) makes multiple passes through every part of the game while it's being developed to insure that all of the game's large themes and points of interest have many smaller echoes throughout the game. Turn over a stone here, and it bears the stamp of the lich-king you will meet two levels later. The song that plays quietly when you enter the dank lair of the Crocodile People contains variations on five tones, and there are five flooded chambers in the area. Maybe if you can match the chambers to the tones, and splash a rock into each chamber in the order in which the corresponding tones play, something interesting happens.


Thematic recursion in UA would mean that all the big things have little echoes throughout the game. And by paying attention to the little things, the player's appreciation for the big themes can be made that much more intense. No one would be required to "get" all the little things in order to complete the game. It would just be terrifically satisfying to realize how all the pieces fit together to make the whole more meaningful.

I understand that the schedule forced a post-release focus on bugfixes and high-priority quality-of-life changes (such as a more complete save function). But if you're planning updates after those, I could well be wrong but I believe you'd be well-served to prioritize immersiveness improvements. "Meta" enhancement of UA really needs to mean more than just better explaining how Typhon has the game on a timer.

Naturally, if that's already how you're thinking of it, consider this whole comment one fan's approval. ;)

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