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 on: Today at 04:20:08 PM 
Started by DawnrazorDCLXVI - Last post by Flug
Not to be awkward, but I'm against any more stealth games for the simple reason that they tend to have to bend everything around that mechanic.

In fact, I'm against any single idea that dominates a game, be it stealth, shape-shift, dream-world, whatever.

The great games that came out of the original studio/s were *games*: they had a balance of elements, a whole imagined world (created or implied) and a story. It sound so simple.

But if we look at UU we find survival, food and drink, fire, light, sleep, running water, NPCs and conversation, a detailed back-story, a realised world with progression, developmental stages, key twists, skills, magic, flying, re-birth,and asimple redemptive arc. It goes on and on (and we haven't even mention unobtrsive Newtonian physics that work almost flawlessly, and a work of art for the UI).

I think that *ideas* are almost the last thing you want for a company and a game-style that was defined by its debts to older established play-styles, but married to cutting edge technology and a willingness to experiment around coreconcepts. This is not a purist-snobbery nostalgia fest, just recognition of what was already done. It was variety, essentially, within a pre-existing world.

I know everyone's exhausted and bored to death of UU discussion just now, but unfinished business...

As for the enjoyment factor, well yeah, but that also comes from doing something cleanly, and with a clear head and sane goals, with realistic expectations.

 on: February 22, 2019, 07:20:41 PM 
Started by DawnrazorDCLXVI - Last post by DawnrazorDCLXVI
I agree with FlatFingers. Make the game you would like to play.

 on: February 22, 2019, 05:00:08 PM 
Started by sluangkhot - Last post by OSE Walter
Hi there, we just did an Kickstarter update yesterday, but didn't post it here yet.  Check it out: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/othersidegames/underworld-ascendant/posts/2423769
We can answer any follow up questions you have!

 on: February 22, 2019, 01:02:56 PM 
Started by sluangkhot - Last post by Edreamer Jamil
Hi since posting above I've waited a while for the team to be able to catch up delivering KS rewards before I start playing
Over 3 months on, have those tier specific keys been released ?
I'm looking at my backerkit download page and I don't see one

I haven't hence run the game enough to see if my Dancing Jade Dagger is in that chest yet but I assume there's no way it could be if steam does not know my backer tier

First thing I did was check this page https://otherside-e.com/wp/ks-rewards-update-1-week-till-launch/ but seems to look the same as it did in November

I'm sure I recall clicking on a more detailed, helpful spreadsheet page of what was done and yet coming but I can't seem to find any link to that now from clicking through this forum

 on: February 22, 2019, 02:27:03 AM 
Started by DawnrazorDCLXVI - Last post by Flatfingers
I've already put in more than my two cents (and Flug, for the record, I count myself as an old grognard :D ), but y'all have sparked some more Thoughts I'm Sure Everyone Wants To Read.

The main thing for me is for you folks at OSE to do something you can all enjoy. You started as you had to; you endured the long march through the necessary first product. You built the studio, the team, the processes, the pipelines. I would counsel doing something now that's smaller in scope in which you can all find something satisfying -- something you can enjoy working on with a lower cost (and risk).

At worst, you get a nice little game knocked out pretty quickly. (OK, that's not really the absolute worst possible outcome, but work with me here.) At best, you get lucky and it's one of those projects that just clicks and becomes more than the sum of its parts. Either way, you had some fun, you recharged the batteries at a relatively low cost, you got a new revenue source, and your third project gets to build on a success.

So if what y'all do next manages all that, it's fine with me whatever it is, even if it's stuff I personally don't care to play, such as platformers, bullet-hells, timed-survival-roguelikes, or anything multiplayer (including co-op). What I might enjoy could be a puzzle game, or a production game in the Zachtronics style. What would an OtherSide spin on visual novels look like? Or how about a combinatorial-construction game, where the goal is to comprehend the simple but interacting rules behind a complex-appearing universe -- it's always annoyed me that "crafting" in MMORPGs just means using brute persistence to win a mass-production game, and there's nothing of "craft" or "craftiness" to it to reward perceptiveness.

That's just me, though. As long as it's something you (OSE) can get excited about doing, I support you doing it.

 on: February 21, 2019, 08:23:41 PM 
Started by DawnrazorDCLXVI - Last post by DawnrazorDCLXVI
I guess what Iím hoping for is a new first person stealther from you guys as in the gaming world itís really lacking right now.

That's not far from what I'm imagining, though I would hardly shove it in Otherside's face to do another stealther if their heart is elsewhere. Someone on the forums had the novel idea of a vampire stealther where would you could turn into a bat or a fog to escape. A shapeshifting game where you use your powers to solve challenges isn't the worst ideas. Personally, I find it pretty enticing.

My own vision of a stealth game would be a stealth/parkour game with a lot of vertical movement. The Styx games do this, but the platforming and action is third-person--first person platforming really doesn't get enough love.

Also, I would propose an artifact & equipment system, something RPG-lite, where you can collect artifacts with different powers to help you along your way, or find items that grant bonuses or talents, such as being able to walk quietly over ground with boots of stealth, or climb walls with climbing gloves like in Thief 3. That's not to say rope arrows weren't better, I am just making examples of the types of items the player might be able to find and equip, each opening up new areas to explore in a semi-open, but gated, world-fashion.

If I were to make this game, I would also make it weaponless. Okay, maybe a blackjack, but you get the idea. The new thing is survival horror with stealth elements, and I would very much like to see Otherside make a "survival stealth" game, where you have to avoid horrors while plundering ancient tombs, castles, and crypts for riches or what-have-you.

Also entertaining the idea of a stealther with crowd-control functioning as an active part of the stealth systems. For instance, being able to don disguises to infiltrate off-limits areas, as with the Hitman series.

That's all for now. Keep this ideas rolling!

P.S: A resounding YES to co-op! And maybe even a guards vs. thieves mode if the idea I've outlined interests you.

 on: February 21, 2019, 06:22:05 PM 
Started by MasterLobar - Last post by oneiromant
As some might have noticed, two of my last posts were deleted. I understand that the deleted comments can be seen as a violation of Forum Code of Conduct Rule #2 ("Communicate constructively"). Although technically justified, I feel deleting them was unnecessary because they were worded respectfully and didn't create quarrels or lengthy off-topic discussions. At least there should have been a notification and explanation why the posts were deleted.

But I am getting the more subtle message that I am no longer welcome here, and I have to concede that I have not been providing much in terms of constructive criticism or comments for a while.

On the other hand, I never felt that any criticism or suggestion made in this forum was taken seriously by the development team. As most critical members have left over time, my feeling is the forum is turning into an echo-chamber. So it's maybe better when I delete my account as well.

Thanks to everyone for the interesting discussions in the past years, and special thanks to Sam for always staying calm and positive even under heavy fire.


 on: February 21, 2019, 04:57:58 PM 
Started by Flug - Last post by Jenuall
Sandro, Update 2 has been out a few days. Update 3 has been mentioned as reasonably firm, nothing known yet. Read the release notes pinned above for a good idea.

See Pkeod's blow-by-blow account of playing UPD2 on the Steam Ascendant forum for detail, though be warned it is illustrated with screenshots.

Not sure what you're expecting at at this stage, I think you're only going to arrive a true view by giving it a go. It's in a reasonable playable state now.

I'd be surprised if Update 3 was revolutionary, but the last updates contained a good amount of meat, so who knows, you may want to wait?

Yeah this is a good post regarding the state of the updates.

My summary of Update 2 would be that it is a polished and better realised version of the game that UA was on launch, they've made some very nice changes and it's a far better experience to play than the day 1 version, but it's still that same "vision" of UA. If you were hoping for something closer to the feel of UU and more inline with that games focus and something that embraced more straight RPG aspects (dialogue etc.) then UA update 2 is still going to fall short.

I'm pleased with some of what they have done, and hopeful that Update 3 is another step in the right direction but some (or many, in the eyes of some) of UA's problems are rooted at the core of what it is and an extensive strip down and redesign would be required to change that.

 on: February 21, 2019, 03:55:19 PM 
Started by DawnrazorDCLXVI - Last post by Flug
Sorry to grognard but I say play to the original strengths...there is a fairly large market to be tapped for re-doing UU, UI and all, the works  ;). Or, an approximation, but keeping every mechanic present in the original.

We know this because of the numbers who expressed initial interest, and the scale of the disappointment in the reaction, and the nature of that disappointment with UA. Think of it as a (dis)satisfaction survey that gave you a lot of info, pointed mostly in the same direction.

Even just (just!) re-treading UU would sell well, if you stuck to it faithfully, warts and all. The story, the dialog, the mystery, the sleep, the water - it's all there. It could also re-establish the franchise on a proper footing (licensing issues permitting) to the point where the chops would be there for a true sequel of sorts.
Or, as above, riff a little on design, but never to the point of water arrows etc

Personally, I think new IPs sound more enticing than they are often are in reality, because there's so much spadework, and you're back in a world of budgetary competition and no recognition for the IP. Why both when you have the existing titles you do? They are your gold, as good as it gets.

Otherside are premised on a number of known games which boil down to 2 - 4 'brands' essentially, so you should use the heft associated with that, and those you now have rights to. WHy dilute and go hunting now, especially on a limited budget? PLus, you get to the check the 'unfinished business' box with UU.

A tight re-imagining of UU, or thereabouts, might also restore wider faith.

I'd actually put my money where my mouth is on this  (though I know KS is now strictly out of favour) and be quite happy to test and get properly involved. I'm sure other old hands on the forum would too.

Single-player, definitely. That is what you are known for,and these games are all about.

 on: February 21, 2019, 03:52:39 PM 
Started by DawnrazorDCLXVI - Last post by Goldwell
This is a great thread, we love to hear from you guys the kinds of games you want to see made. I have a few questions:
  • Should we do a new, original IP to balance out that our other two franchises (Underworld and System Shock)? Or find another existing franchise to work with?
  • Should we explore doing more traditional remakes of the original Ultima Underworld games? I ask that mainly because my sense if that people would love to see it--to be clear, I'm talking about likely modest team size and budget, sticking very much true to the original games and just bringing them forward tech-wise 25 years or so . . . (maybe we could add the bit about Typhon, Aelita and Cabirus, lol)
  • Single player or co-op multiplayer?

I think a brand new IP would be the way to go forward. Set the scope reasonable for your budget but I would love to see something similar to the thief series from you guys. I know the story of Garrett has already been told but the world of medieval steampunk is so varied, open and untapped I feel there could be lots of angles to explore within there.

In terms of that market itís really untapped too, the best weíve gotten was Dishonored really and thatís been shelved now too. Stealth games seem to be a bit of a dying breed in terms of AAA interest but when done right it can draw in large enough crowds of gamers.

I guess what Iím hoping for is a new first person stealther from you guys as in the gaming world itís really lacking right now.

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