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"IT'S A NICELY DESIGNED GAME AS LONG AS YOU DON'T WANT ANY MEANING IN YOUR LIFE."-TIM

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Author Topic: When do Mac users get a build?  (Read 1367 times)

smpita

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When do Mac users get a build?
« on: September 08, 2017, 09:46:11 PM »

Which stage of development includes the first build for OSX? Alpha? Beta? Release Candidate?
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Bica yeshor'click

smpita

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 11:46:38 PM »

Has this been answered somewhere else? I haven't been able to find an answer to this question.
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Bica yeshor'click

Shadowe Darkfyre

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 02:47:50 PM »

According to the FAQ on the kickstarter:
When we release the prototype, pre-alpha, alpha and beta versions of the game to backers who pledged at tiers granting access to them, Linux and Mac users will get those versions as well. The reality of development and QA resources may mean that the Linux and Mac versions will be a little rougher than the PC versions, but Mac and Linux users will be jumping into these versions as soon as PC players do.


However, I pointed this out several weeks ago, and asked both here and on the kickstarter comments when Mac users can expect to play the build and no one responded to either, so I wouldn't hold my breath on a response.  Last official word is "bootcamp to windows if you have a Mac" which I feel is unreasonable given the statement above, but I guess I'm in the minority.
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smpita

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 11:22:22 PM »

Thank you for your input and quote of their original promise. As there is no escaping the reality that this is no longer the case, I was referring to their current plan to offer a Mac/Linux build.

If those platforms are going to see an end product, that end product has to go through development stages. With the fact that they won't give any reasons for the delays, if they are also unwilling to enter conversation about their current projections and timeline, I will be forced to conclude that this will be a Windows only product.
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Bica yeshor'click

OSE Walter

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 09:28:11 AM »

Hi folks, the Kickstarter FAQ is out-of-date.  We've been trying to update it, but it turns out that you can't change it now that it's set.

Here's where we're at:  Right now, it's best for us from a development perspective to focus on one platform and get the game pretty far along (probably almost done) before doing any porting work.  That's how ports are typically done and it's more efficient--otherwise we throw away a bunch of extra dev and QA time on interim ports, which literally would reduce time and effort on the game.  That's not really a good trade-off.  We realize that's different than what is in the Kickstarter FAQ, but none of us are really sure why that was said at that point in time.  Anyway, we will do Mac/Linux final versions of the game for those of you that supported us based on that.
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amigacooke

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 06:05:46 AM »

We realize that's different than what is in the Kickstarter FAQ, but none of us are really sure why that was said at that point in time.

Perhaps it was to encourage macOS/Linux backers to pledge at higher levels for alphas and betas they were never going to get?

This isn't good enough, but no great surprise and is why I never back at higher than the basic level now.

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smpita

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 02:53:15 PM »

Hi folks, the Kickstarter FAQ is out-of-date.  We've been trying to update it, but it turns out that you can't change it now that it's set.

Here's where we're at:  Right now, it's best for us from a development perspective to focus on one platform and get the game pretty far along (probably almost done) before doing any porting work.  That's how ports are typically done and it's more efficient--otherwise we throw away a bunch of extra dev and QA time on interim ports, which literally would reduce time and effort on the game.  That's not really a good trade-off.  We realize that's different than what is in the Kickstarter FAQ, but none of us are really sure why that was said at that point in time.  Anyway, we will do Mac/Linux final versions of the game for those of you that supported us based on that.

First of all, thank you for clarifying and updating the official position on the situation. After so much silence on the issue, it is refreshing to be able to update my basis for expectations. I understand your business decision to focus on core development as a method to streamline your resources.

As a person who paid triple the price of most AAA label games for early access that I will not receive, I feel mislead and cheated. You can't change the Kickstarter campaign because it is a record of the promises you made to receive the funding you were granted.
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Bica yeshor'click

amigacooke

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 04:23:49 AM »

It's a good thing that those who are running KickStarter projects are unable to rewrite what was said during the time the funding was being sought.

Other KickStarters such as Universim are able to deliver development builds across all the platforms they promised to, so I can't imagine why it would be so difficult in this case.  If it slows development down slightly for Windows users, why is this a problem?

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ped7g

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 05:37:39 PM »

Here's where we're at:  Right now, it's best for us from a development perspective to focus on one platform and get the game pretty far along (probably almost done) before doing any porting work.  That's how ports are typically done and it's more efficient

That's usually how ports gets to be total pain in the ass, unless you talk about little polish/QA stuff/verifying builds.

As you are already using 3rd party frameworks and engine(s), keeping an eye of everything having mac+linux variants from starts is lot more simpler, then just doing it windows-way "works for me" and then to try figure out how to port it, when you used features/libraries which are not available on mac or linux.

With Unity engine the content creators like 3D modellers, graphicians, game scripts, etc... shouldn't even know which platform is targetted, as the engine should hide all the differences.

The problem may arise if you add some native DLL, and it's written by some clueless dude who doesn't know enough about how to write portable C++ (which is basically only reasonable choice for portable game code anyway, C# may do for some less performance hungry things and is embedded in Unity I guess (judging just by data of other games, I never did try to use either C# or Unity), but "mono" is not equal to full ".net", while well written C++ [in portable way] can be usually run on many different platforms, including toasters and fridges. And badly written one can be not even compilable by anything else than Microsoft compiler, I have seen lot of this stuff while reviewing some sources, most of it can be easily avoided just by doing regular builds with several compilers. Not even testing each of them, just running the build is usually enough to have code base in decent state, when the porting "starts" seriously. Also testing builds on several platforms often uncovers weird bugs in the code which may go unnoticed on single platform.

At the moment it looks like my original pledge expecting DRM-free linux version will be not fulfilled, and I will receive some wise comments why-this-is-actually-better-and-more-effective. I invested into product which was promised to be done properly and for multiple targets, not effectively. I can live easily without the pre-final builds (didn't plan to use my access to the beta builds any way), but I'm afraid the linux version will evaporate quietly, or it will not get decent support (all bugfixes from windows version, etc). Though I'm not surprised by this situation, I feel disappointed.
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sluangkhot

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 10:43:13 AM »

Quote
Perhaps it was to encourage macOS/Linux backers to pledge at higher levels for alphas and betas they were never going to get?

There was definitely no intention of cheating people out of their money when the Mac and Linux builds were originally promised. I wasn't a part of the team yet when this promise was made, but I would imagine that it was within scope at the time until unforeseen development issues arose.

We were hoping to update the FAQ so that our backers could find information about the Mac and Linux builds status in an accessible place.

Quote
I can live easily without the pre-final builds (didn't plan to use my access to the beta builds any way), but I'm afraid the linux version will evaporate quietly, or it will not get decent support (all bugfixes from windows version, etc).

As for this, I am DETERMINED to ensure that Mac and Linux builds will run just as well as the final Windows version to make up for the lack of pre-final build access. We still highly value all of your support, and the sooner we can tighten up the game on Windows, the sooner we can get to polishing it for other platforms as well.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 12:24:47 PM by sluangkhot »
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amigacooke

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 03:09:56 PM »

There was definitely no intention of cheating people out of their money when the Mac and Linux builds were originally promised. I wasn't a part of the team yet when this promise was made, but I would imagine that it was within scope at the time until unforeseen development issues arose.

I am DETERMINED to ensure that Mac and Linux builds will run just as well as the final Windows version to make up for the lack of pre-final build access. We still highly value all of your support, and the sooner we can tighten up the game on Windows, the sooner we can get to polishing it for other platforms as well.

Perhaps you could let us know what the unfortunate development issues were and how they will be lessened by waiting for the Windows version?   

I'm glad you're determined to make all platform versions equal, but I'd expect that anyway as we all coughed up the same amount of money for the same pledge levels, so it doesn't really make up for anything.

It's difficult to feel that the support of macOS/Linux users is 'highly valued' when our versions are so clearly of lesser priority than the Windows one. Surprisingly, being told that the sooner the Windows version is done, the sooner the other versions can be started, doesn't cut much ice with those who were expecting all three versions to arrive together.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 03:20:44 PM by amigacooke »
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sluangkhot

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 04:34:26 PM »

Game development isn't the most stable field, and multiple things can derail a project, even with the best of planning. Publisher commitments that prioritize work on other projects or other features, a LACK of a publisher, financial instability and unexpected layoffs are some of the most common obstacles for working on a game, whether its AAA, III or a student game.

What it's come down to right now is that we know it's been a long time. Heck, we thought shooting for 2016 was within scope! But things change, and now that we are in a more stable position to work on Underworld Ascendant, we can see this game through.

As Walter said, it's more efficient for us to finish the game for Windows and then work on ports for Mac and Linux, which will be shipped shortly after. This means the game will be ultimately available sooner for ALL platforms, rather than if we focused on making all three versions available for every stage in development.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 04:40:14 PM by sluangkhot »
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leezilla

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 11:50:45 PM »

Hi folks, the Kickstarter FAQ is out-of-date.  We've been trying to update it, but it turns out that you can't change it now that it's set.

Here's where we're at:  Right now, it's best for us from a development perspective to focus on one platform and get the game pretty far along (probably almost done) before doing any porting work.  That's how ports are typically done and it's more efficient--otherwise we throw away a bunch of extra dev and QA time on interim ports, which literally would reduce time and effort on the game.  That's not really a good trade-off.  We realize that's different than what is in the Kickstarter FAQ, but none of us are really sure why that was said at that point in time.  Anyway, we will do Mac/Linux final versions of the game for those of you that supported us based on that.

I invested based on the commitments Otherside made regarding OS availability. As this is a refutation of the basis for my funding level, I would like to request that Otherside do the right thing here and offer refunds to those of us that are now being sidelined by this change in policy. I am a Mac and Linux only user, there is no path for me to see benefit to the additional funding I provided the project.
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OSE Walter

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2017, 08:04:46 AM »

Got it guys, hang tight, trying to see what we can do.
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Sandro

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Re: When do Mac users get a build?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2017, 08:30:24 AM »

Im just curious as to what percentage of Underworlders will be purchasing the game for Windows, versus any other platform. Anyone have rough percentages?
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