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"IT'S A NICELY DESIGNED GAME AS LONG AS YOU DON'T WANT ANY MEANING IN YOUR LIFE."-TIM

Poll

If you had known how the game is going to turn out, would you still have backed it in the KS?

Yes
- 17 (34.7%)
No
- 31 (63.3%)
Undecided
- 1 (2%)

Total Members Voted: 48


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Author Topic: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?  (Read 1179 times)

Sir Cabirus

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2018, 04:25:05 PM »

Sadly no -- and I have a deep connection to UW and UW 2 as you might know. To make it short, UA is just a kind of Thief game playing in the Stygian Abyss. No dialogs with NPCs, no interaction with different peoples, no real save system. I'm very disappointed. However, if OtherSide implements a true save game system, UA is  worth a look for all the Thief fans. But it is still not the game I backed for.
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M0d3u5

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2018, 05:36:27 PM »

Saddest no vote I ever had to give. I have UU1 and 2 in a shrine on my wall. The UU1 box art has been my desktop wallpaper for years. I hear the music in my head every time I walk down a dark stone corridor.

This was supposed to be UU3, no matter what they say...that was what we were all expecting. The worst part is I think we all fooled ourselves. I don't think we were cheated so much as they just didn't have enough of a vision to make something meaningful (or even functional apparently). Part of the problem is we all got a case of the "hazies" remembering our youth first booting up that game on our ancient computers. Back then we were overwhelmed with a sense of presence in a living dungeon filled with great lore, adventure and tantalizing mysteries. Today we can't even save our game.

I don't think they utilized that nostalgia as a way of stealing from us, but nor did they know how to make use of it while still creating something that was an evolution of the original games. There was a fundamental disconnect between the original concept (lets reboot UU!) and what was delivered (we don't know what we're doing!) I think they meant well but there is clearly a lack of the technical and project management skills required for something of this scope.

I backed this thing with a lot of money and yes, I wish I had that money back. There is one small glimmer of hope here though. I am praying that in amongst those who kickstarted this there is an indie programmer who was so affronted by what was produced that they feel compelled to make the spiritual successor we all wanted to see. Smaller teams than this have made amazing products.

I think all we really want is an immersive first person dungeon crawler with a living environment and a real sense of agency, adventure and mystery. They just don't make them like they used to. Lets hope someone figures out how to make them like they were and like they can be today, the best of both Underworlds as it were.

Whoever does that though, please, don't make us move like a zamboni with a sword. Thank you for your kind attention.
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Twist

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2018, 05:38:26 PM »

I voted yes for the reasons stated by Starker, Flatfingers and Brodo.

But I don't like this "properly seeing the big picture" talk.

Some people are just really big Ultima Underworld fans. They're not beholden to support the founding of a new studio or the potential of that studio's future games.

The Kickstarter pretty explicitly targeted them with promise of a spiritual successor to the game they loved. That alone is what they supported; that alone is what they paid for.

They didn't get that with Underworld Ascendant. There's nothing wrong with them being upset about that, and there's nothing wrong with them expressing regret for having supported the Kickstarter. It shouldn't be implied that they're inferior for not "seeing the big picture" just because they're disappointed and regretful.
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Twist

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2018, 05:52:43 PM »

I don't think they utilized that nostalgia as a way of stealing from us, but nor did they know how to make use of it while still creating something that was an evolution of the original games. There was a fundamental disconnect between the original concept (lets reboot UU!) and what was delivered (we don't know what we're doing!) I think they meant well but there is clearly a lack of the technical and project management skills required for something of this scope.

That sounds as accurate and likely as any explanation or excuse I've seen.

I am praying that in amongst those who kickstarted this there is an indie programmer who was so affronted by what was produced that they feel compelled to make the spiritual successor we all wanted to see. Smaller teams than this have made amazing products.

Have you heard of Monomyth? It might be exactly what you're looking for:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/908360/Monomyth/

I guess we'll see how that turns out.
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Curratum

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2018, 03:46:48 AM »

On the upside, Monomyth is not asking for your money upfront, while shoving grandiose promises in your face.

It's even NOT made by "industry veterans", so it might actually turn out ok.  ::)

And for anyone trying to suggest Shroud of the Avatar is somehow worse and more of a lying cash grab than UA, let me remind you that SotA is 58 / 65 on metacritic and UA is 39 / 19.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 03:55:50 AM by Curratum »
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Flatfingers

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2018, 12:48:14 PM »

And for anyone trying to suggest Shroud of the Avatar is somehow worse and more of a lying cash grab than UA, let me remind you that SotA is 58 / 65 on metacritic and UA is 39 / 19.  ;)

There are worse offenders than SoTA. It does offer a complete game, and I never said Portalarium was "lying" about anything.

But SoTA did, and does, feel "cash grabby" to me, and has from the start. I have never liked Portalarium asking for money for a game, and then asking for more money or you don't get some valuable basic content (player housing). One or the other method would have been fine; doing both -- which OtherSide did not do with UA -- seems excessive.

I don't like this "properly seeing the big picture" talk.

...

It shouldn't be implied that [fans of UU who wanted that experience from UA are] inferior for not "seeing the big picture" just because they're disappointed and regretful.

Fair comment.

My comment was in part a response to Katana's imputation that anyone who still would have backed UA is somehow willfully blind. By "big picture" I was trying to suggest that there's value in supporting OtherSide even if the first major game from them didn't meet every expectation. I can be disappointed somewhat with UA and still calculate that the odds for getting more immersive sims from them (and more immersive sim elements from other developers) are better if OtherSide continues to exist.

My point wasn't to criticize those disappointed about UA; it was to offer a reason why those who focus more on OtherSide as an ongoing studio than UA as just one game aren't completely nuts.
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Twist

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2018, 01:04:47 PM »

I kind of wondered if the whole "properly seeing the big picture" nonsense was you over-reacting to the obnoxious belligerence and persistent negativity of certain characters.

But c'mon, man. Don't let 'em get to you!

(And yeah, I get your point, which is why I paraphrased it in my post. ;))
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Flug

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2018, 01:19:46 PM »

I'd pay good money to back any game that had 'Lying cash grab' as its Kickstarter Pledge promise... I've looked, but no luck yet....

Also, perhaps there should be a Fan Backers, not just Game Backers...you can work your way up to being a 'Veteran Fan' ('woke' as the top tier. You get a miniature alarm clock).

But really, Backers are many and various as the people themselves...some back the big pictiure, some (as Starker says) back the premise of the studio, some just want the narrowed detailed picture that looks a bit like the one they had before.

An outbreak of concensus. We can't have that  :)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 01:29:40 PM by Flug »
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Psychomorph

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2018, 06:13:42 PM »

Have you heard of Monomyth? It might be exactly what you're looking for:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/908360/Monomyth/

I guess we'll see how that turns out.

Thanks for the mention. Wishlisted and looking forward to see more of it.
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mg

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2018, 07:01:00 PM »

Yes, I would have. For me, it's less about getting UU 3 and more about getting LGS 2, and I'd fund any chance for that, no matter how remote.

Also, I do not think the game is a lost cause. I have had fun with it even in its current unfinished and buggy state and I think it has a lot going for it even if it falls short in other aspects. At the very least I think that, when they do work, things like the atmosphere, the sound design, the level design and some of the gameplay systems show a lot of potential for an absolutely great immersive sim.

In that case I have a bridge in Skyrim to sell to you. It leads to the other side of the river, so should be right what floats your canoe. $500,000,000 and you are in... ;D

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Starker

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2018, 09:27:54 PM »

In that case I have a bridge in Skyrim to sell to you. It leads to the other side of the river, so should be right what floats your canoe. $500,000,000 and you are in... ;D

Some of these people have been involved in making some of my favourite games ever, bringing me countless hours of joy. Why wouldn't I support them? Even in sport, if your favourite team has a bad match, you still root for them. Why wouldn't I root for people who essentially defined gaming for me? I don't think I can overstate how important LGS and their games have been to me and I absolutely welcome and support the effort to continue the legacy.

Besides, I don't see a lot of other studios out there committed to making LGS type of immersive sims. Not to the extent Otherside is. To me, it's clear they can do it, the ingredients are all there, it's just a matter of execution. Even with UA, I think there are aspects they absolutely nailed, and they can build on that.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 09:38:43 PM by Starker »
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MasterLobar

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2018, 04:14:45 AM »

Besides, I don't see a lot of other studios out there committed to making LGS type of immersive sims. Not to the extent Otherside is.

OS is not and never was committed to making LGS type immersive sims.
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dglamb

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2018, 09:10:52 AM »

Although the game isn't what I expected, it still has good elements. I don't think Otherside was purposefully misleading, they just  didn't provide much detail, and obviously missed on a few key features.
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Zanderat

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2018, 11:21:16 AM »

In that case I have a bridge in Skyrim to sell to you. It leads to the other side of the river, so should be right what floats your canoe. $500,000,000 and you are in... ;D

Some of these people have been involved in making some of my favourite games ever, bringing me countless hours of joy. Why wouldn't I support them? Even in sport, if your favourite team has a bad match, you still root for them. Why wouldn't I root for people who essentially defined gaming for me? I don't think I can overstate how important LGS and their games have been to me and I absolutely welcome and support the effort to continue the legacy.

Besides, I don't see a lot of other studios out there committed to making LGS type of immersive sims. Not to the extent Otherside is. To me, it's clear they can do it, the ingredients are all there, it's just a matter of execution. Even with UA, I think there are aspects they absolutely nailed, and they can build on that.
I feel the same way.  Hoping that SS3 is their "we are on to Cincinnati" game.
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Starker

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Re: Poll: Knowing what we know today, would you have backed UA?
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2018, 07:42:27 PM »

OS is not and never was committed to making LGS type immersive sims.

How is UA any less of an immersive sim than, say, Thief? It may have fallen short of your expectations, but that doesn't make it not an immersive sim.

Otherside is committed to the very same design goals -- open, non-linear level design with good connectivity, multiple solutions to problems, player freedom, emergence, etc.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 07:51:59 PM by Starker »
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